“If I had exclusive referral power to a village and one opened right now, like in the next hour, let’s say there were 30 to 50 spots? Within an hour or two I could fill it with referrals easily, EASILY.”

Andrew Constantino is an outreach worker in Seattle.  His territory includes the area roughly from the Sculpture Park south to the Stadiums, and from the waterfront east to the International District.  In October, 2024 we asked him some questions to better understand his street-level perspective on homelessness, and the role tiny homes can play in the solution.  Q&A’s have been edited for length and clarity.

• SFNW: So, what’s a typical day look like for you like?

AC:  I’ll split my time between emerging situations and looking around myself, and that means that I’m hiking around the waterfront – I look in little nooks and crannies, or in Pioneer Square, and I just see, you know, if someone might need my help.  And if I see people that are unhoused or seem like they’re having a difficult time, then I’m just introducing myself to them, you know?  So it’s kind of weird, it’s kind of like I’m basically offering assistance to people that aren’t necessarily asking for it.  And that takes a little bit of ice breaking ability, but you can see I’m not really a shy person!  And some of it takes a little bit of practice. And so I’m doing that, basically just wandering around looking or else they (businesses, private security) are contacting me about something that they see and they’re saying, hey, there’s someone that I feel like is having a difficult time. Could you take a look?  And so then that becomes my main priority, right? As soon as one of them is asking me for help, then I’ll be like, OK, where?  And then I appear.

And if none of that’s going on, then I follow up with people that I’ve previously contacted. So I might make plans for someone that I’ve met to come to the office and talk to me.  Or we can sit down on the street where we can chat a little bit.  Can I drive you to the DMV? The Social Security office?   Can I help you fill out a piece of paper, you know, or can we talk about drug treatment?  You know, so it’s just getting into what’s going on with them and trying to solve some of it. Maybe that’s trying to get them into a tiny house or something else.

• SFNW: And how many clients do you do that for? How many do you manage on a regular basis?

AC:  I would say that there’s two groups. You know, there’s people that I consistently talk to, and then there’s a higher need group that it’s almost every day.  So I’d say roughly, probably a dozen people that I have almost daily contact with. And then the bigger group would probably be about 50 to 60 people that it’s weekly or every other week.

• SFNW: And are they all people that are still on the street?

AC:  No. So even though someone might get into a village and I know that there’s case managers there, there’s staff there, but because I already have an ongoing relationship with them for probably six months to a year that I’ve been talking to them?  They still often trust me more than that new person, yet.  And so it’s kind of like acting as a sounding board for them to think about what they want.  It’s kind of like just being a trusted person in someone’s life.  It’s just like a 20 minute conversation where they just want to talk to me on the phone for a little while. A familiar voice.

• SFNW: So how many of your clients would you say are struggling with addiction?

AC:  If I really think about it, probably like 90%. Yeah, it could be even more, 93%.  It’s rare that they’re not. And so, it usually surprises me when that’s not a factor.

We’ll often go through a million different — I need this, I need that, I need housing, I need you know what — and usually I have to go through all this stuff and we finally get to the root of the problem, which is until they address their substance use most of those things will not get better.  But often it takes four or five months of me getting to know someone before I finally hear it from their mouth.  And I think, we’re here. We finally went through a lot of it. And that kind of denial, that kind of protectiveness, that kind of main coping strategy [drug use] actually isn’t working for them.  And then I’m like, “let’s have that conversation,” [about treatment].

And I mean, that’s the thing.  When we see these problems worsen, and more and more visible homelessness [around us], yeah cost of living plays a big part of it. But we also happen to have the most powerful synthetic drugs that have ever been available.  And they are everywhere and they’re dirt cheap.

• SFNW: So roughly how many of your clients would you say, just roughly some/ many/ all, want to be off the streets?

AC:  You know, you’ll hear it directly from some people. “Ohh no, I’m happy.  I don’t want to do that. There’s some rules,” or,  “I’m just a gypsy or a vagabond. I like camping,” or, “I like staying in my RV.” I hear that frequently, you know?  But I would say that a very big chunk of those that express that is a pride thing.  It’s a defense thing.

So I think that there is probably a small percentage, more like 10-15% of the people that I interact with, that actually see living in an apartment and spending their time watching Netflix, sounds like a stupid life to them.  I think it’s about the same amount of people that we just interact with normally in life that romanticize going to live on a farm and raise goats.  It’s the same percentage of people that kind of want some life separated from being trapped in rent and watching Netflix and eating McDonald’s.  It’s the same percentage of people, just expressed a little differently.

• SFNW: Let’s talk a little more specifically about tiny homes.  What role do you see tiny homes playing for your clientele?  Are they desirable?  Is it something that motivates people, or is it just seen as yet another option?

“. . . the folks that I interact with – more of them express their desire or preference for a tiny house than for some type of [permanent] housing.  And I think it’s because it splits the difference in so many different ways.”

AC:  You know, the folks that I interact with – more of them express their desire or preference for a tiny house than for some type of [permanent] housing.  And I think it’s because it splits the difference in so many different ways.  There’s plenty of people that say, “I want an apartment. I want my own place,” but that seems so unachievable.  And then it becomes:  Well, where is it?  How much is it?  What would I have to do to get it?  And it actually seems like a really big commitment.

Let’s say for housing you have some kind of voucher. It’s going to be a yearlong  lease.  Kind of like going on a date, and if we’re going to go on a date then we’re now in a relationship and that relationship is going to have to continue for a whole year.  Imagine if you went on a date with someone and you’re like, now we’re dating exclusively for one year?   It’s kind of a commitment, you know?

So number one, [tiny homes are] low commitment and so it’s, “Well, I can try this. And if I don’t like it, I can always leave. If I do like it, I get to stay.  And if I like it a lot, maybe there’s another option like getting into housing.”  So I think it splits that difference.

Then, it splits the difference for the very small group who thinks, “well no, you know I kind of like this more vagabond kind of life.”  It appeals to them as well, because it has the romantic element of a tiny house, right?  And so it hits that group too.

And then there’s another group of people that I hear say directly, “I don’t want to bring my addiction into housing.”  So it [tiny homes] seems like this decompression chamber as well.  “Well, why don’t I do this [a tiny home] and then I can address some other things, get a few other things together in my life, and then do that [permanent housing].”

Because [an apartment] seems higher stakes to people, that’s why I think [tiny homes] are a good thing. It’s a step. It’s a decompression chamber. Get it together and then you can make a decision from better places.  Whereas when someone is outside, maybe it’s been going on for two or three years, are they really in a good place to make that decision [to commit to permanent housing]? 

• SFNW: Among your colleagues, among other outreach workers, are the opinions split on tiny homes? Do people tend to lean one way or another?

AC:  I definitely think that every single one of them would tell you literally every client asks for a tiny house.  That is the number one thing people ask for.  Probably the number two thing is a place where they can park, some version of that. “I just want a place where I can park my rv or my car, and maybe they have bathrooms, the same type of thing as a tiny house village.”  So I think it’s the number one thing that people ask for, and no one would deny that. But I think that probably some of my other outreach worker [colleagues], they would probably say no, we probably should just put them in housing. But I think that’s just a little bit more than me, not much.

• SFNW: Do you have an idea of how many Clients you’ve been able to place in tiny homes?

AC:  So I’ve been working at XXXXXX now for just over two years. And I think that probably. . . me personally, it’s probably just about 20.  And then having coordinated with another outreach worker?  It’s probably double that. So maybe 40-50 and that’s actually extremely high because it’s very difficult to get them.

• SFNW: What’s the hold up?  Could you do more?

“. . . I could fill it with referrals EASILY. And all it would take is for me to run around and talk to people that are already asking me.”

AC:  Ah, if I had exclusive referral power to a village and one opened right now, like in the next hour, if one was opening in the next hour, let’s say there were 30 to 50 spots? Within an hour or two I could fill it with referrals easily, EASILY.

And all it would take is for me to run around and talk to people that are already asking me. I’ll have people that want one, and it can take me two to three months to get an opening, and that is literally from me twisting everyone’s ***** arm at every step of the way. I’m applying heavy pressure to every person that makes decisions. It’s impossible and it’s a joke and a lot of times the priorities have nothing to do with need.  It’s usually [city residents] are complaining about people camping in their particular area. That is the priority of the city, not based on what the client needs.

It’s my main criticism of dispatch strategy, even though I 100% understand that the electeds are responding to what the public wants. But I think that method short circuits a healthy incentive structure.  My quip is that here in Seattle you cannot ask for help, you have to wait until it’s forced upon you.  And it’s forced upon you through the complaints of residents.  But if you ask [for help], no!  So it creates the incentive to be a problem, because that’s how your needs get addressed.

Let’s say someone went and did a 28 day detox.  A lot of outreach workers are focused on getting people into treatment.  Then if that translated into an immediate referral [to a tiny home], you just created an incentive to engage in detox or to engage in treatment, because that means now I can get the other thing I want.  So you’re creating the, “Here’s the step. There’s a step. There’s a step,” and now it makes sense. But the clients see that it [currently] doesn’t make sense. Instead, if they go to the encampment that’s most on the news and use drugs and burn things, they’re going to get swept. And when they get swept, then they get offered something.

There’s a lot of people, the reentry case managers or the diversion case managers, who would love to offer a client [that positive incentive].  Maybe a client has just spent a month or couple of weeks in jail on some petty theft or drug charge and they’re being released. During those couple of weeks they haven’t been using substances.  Well, could the reentry case manager working there make a referral now?  No.  So what does the client do? They leave, reengage with substances, get in trouble again and so at the point at which an intervention could be the most effective, we fumble every time. 

• SFNW: So what happens to make it a good day for you? What is a good day?

“. . . the number one thing is when I can get someone into a tiny house.”

AC:  Oh my. You know, honestly, the number one thing is when I can get someone into a tiny house.  The housing part, that is such a process, so occasionally I can get there but it is extremely rare. But you know, every couple months I finally can get a referral to the tiny house. And if I know it’s going to happen and the client doesn’t know yet?  I know it’s what they want. And then I know as soon as I have a place at the village, I’m like, OMG!  Then all the other **** that I want to work on with them, now I can start that, but I have to get their basic needs met first. I need a place for them to be, and I know they’ll be safe because I’m scared for my people that are still outside. I worry about them, you know?  And it feels like calling lightning out of the sky, and I caught it, and I have it for them!

And usually they’ve been waiting for an extended period of time. And I have the power now and I go find them and they’re so happy. They’re SO happy. They can’t believe it, you know?

And there’s other victories that usually happen after that.  Now we’re having the treatment conversation, again.  We’ve been having it all along [but now] let’s strike while the iron is hot.  We’ve got this, let’s get something else! And usually, like me, my client will be reinvigorated because we’ve just made a step, right?  

• SFNW: So that that begs the question, how important is shelter to getting everything else ironed out?

AC:  You know, I’ll tell you. I’ve had clients where it just isn’t happening. We can’t get a good option for a place to stay.  And they’ll tell me they’re camping in the park, or down under the bridge, and we’ve started treatment.  Maybe they’ve been doing it for a month or something and they’re looking better.  They’re feeling better.  And they’ll express to me, “Dude, I just can’t resist the ***** temptation,” when literally the most powerful synthetic opioids cost a dollar or two.  And they’re right here. They’re everywhere. They’re just everywhere, on every block.  And you have someone that’s trying to resist, they’re taking a medication.  But when they’re outside and it’s raining and they’re cold, I mean this substance obliviates you.  What it does is it gives you this outrageously intense sense of well-being. And it makes anything tolerable.  So you can use this substance and it feels like you have everything.  It puts you into this dream state where you’re warm and safe and loved.  And it feels like you’re in heaven. And you’re literally in hell. That’s what it does to you.

• SFNW: So the flip side of my earlier question is, what’s a really bad day look like?

AC:  Oh, literally someone dies.  I mean, I have locations, maybe there’s just a couple people that are camping or tend to stay in an area, sleep in that area?   So let’s say the weekend goes by?  On Monday morning, I become worried about people. I need to know what’s going on with them.  And sometimes there’s four or five people that were staying in there, one of them OD’d and they’re literally dead. And I was working with them.  And it’s crazy. . .

You know, I try to tell people that being alone is not good. And a lot of the folks that I interact with down in this area are on their own.  They do not have friends.  They do not have any support system.  They’re very disconnected from any type of family.  There’s a lot of shame with addiction and so people tend to self isolate.

• SFNW: Last question, what’s one thing that you wish the general public knew about homelessness?

AC:  Well, you know, I’d say this.  This can seem kind of woo-woo, you know, maybe a little too idealistic, but I really think that in many ways, people are far more alike than they are different and often the biggest difference is the poverty.  Let’s say, we all just traded places?  You would literally see the same behaviors.  I honestly feel like there’s such little difference with people’s behaviors.

I see people that are housed or being successful and have eccentric family members that are hoarding stuff?  They have a nice house but it’s filled with junk?  And I’ve seen my clients doing that and it’s not OK?  There’s a lot of clients that I’ve talked to and I’m thinking this person is literally no different than my mother, you know?  Or I’ve talked to politicians and I’m thinking they just remind me of one of my clients.

People are just far more alike than we realize. There’s not a whole lot of ***** difference, you know, and maybe they just have a few more challenges, or setbacks. Usually those are lifelong that have brought them to this point. It’s not like it’s just one event, like the addiction – the addiction is usually the coping strategy.

And I think another thing, as far as the public perception of homelessness?  I think that there’s this feeling that we’ve made this investment of taxpayer dollars but why is it not solved?  But that’s like assuming that we have 1000 crates of apples and a warehouse, and we just want those crates to be moved outside and stacked properly.  But you’re assuming that there aren’t new crates of apples being added to the pile.

And I would respond, well, we’ve spent billions of dollars on the police.  Why haven’t we solved it?  Why haven’t we solved crime yet?  We spend billions of dollars on healthcare. Why are people still sick? Why haven’t we cured all these diseases yet?  

There is human vulnerability, human frailty, and mortality. And if we had the ability to permanently solve human problems, we would have done that 1000 years ago.  That is just not an achievable goal. You can make progress towards something. You can make a more egalitarian society. You can do a better job.  But these problems occur, new problems happen.  New diseases emerge.  New drugs emerge.  New forms of crime emerge.  And so I just think that what we can do is get better at accepting our responsibility to our fellow human beings.  It’s not to say that we can’t get on a positive side of a problem, but I think that it’s just naive to think that we’re going to solve it permanently.